What's Good with the Movement for Palestine: Part 1

[00:00:01] What's Good Ohio on your host, James Hase and this is The What's Good Ohio podcast. We'll talk to the activists, organizers, visionaries and good travel makers coming together to make our state better for everyone. No exceptions. I'm joined as always by Sarah Roenberg. Whats Good Sarah?

[00:00:31] Hey James, it's good to be here. What is good? This is being recorded on May 10th tomorrow is the 11th and I will be at the Central Ohio Workers Center May Day event. So they have a lot of different organizations tabling and pretty sure there's like face painting,

[00:00:49] food, lots of really good Latin food and yeah doing that for my day on Saturday and then you know Sunday got to call my mom and that's about that. How about you? What's Good with You James?

[00:01:04] It is one of those days we can. I've been traveling a lot for work this year. I didn't travel much for work the last couple years

[00:01:11] or told some last year but you know with COVID and you know young kid I just was at home for a number of years so this year I've been traveling a lot more to the all the conferences and to kind of pay down my debts.

[00:01:23] I got a million of my wife a weekend to herself at an Airbnb. So after we get done recording this we're going to go drop our off over there and then be me in Felix on our own for a couple days. So looking forward to that actually

[00:01:37] do enjoy when it's just us though I know I will not get a break next couple days though but it'll be fun. All right so let's jump into it. Since October 7th, 2023 the attention of the entire world has been focused

[00:01:51] on Gaza and the plight of Palestinians men women and children who have been enduring bombardments and starvation from the US back to Israeli military operation and siege. Communion high winds this latest round of violence seems to be the first time they are learning about

[00:02:06] the conflict between Israel and Palestine but this crisis has been unfolding for over 75 years. I actually participated in my first die into a pose of occupation of Palestine in 2012. It is clear that no military

[00:02:18] solution will bring an end to the violence and that only a political solution that ends the apartheid system and recognize that the humanity of both Israelis and Palestinians can do that. Over the past seven months

[00:02:30] there have been countless rallies, direct actions and calls to actual across Ohio, the United States and the world demanding a ceasefire. In the last three plus weeks we have also seen a vibrant protest movement

[00:02:42] emerge amidst intense oppression across American universities. As students and young people are standing up against our governments and our institutions continue supporting and funding of Israeli military actions.

[00:03:09] Today we are excited to host a special two-part episode featuring a couple conversations with leaders here in Ohio who have been organizing for a ceasefire and an end to the occupation in Palestine. In this first part we are joined by

[00:03:21] Sheridan Nasser and organizer with the Cleveland Palestine advocacy community or CPAC, a board member of O-Paul building a API feminist leadership and an associate professor at Cleveland State University as well as no well

[00:03:35] Nasser and organizer with the Palestinian youth movement. Welcome both of you. Thank you so much for having us. Yes, thank you. I'm excited to be here. Absolutely. And before we get into much more of a deep conversation, could you just tell us a little bit about

[00:03:50] yourselves where you're from and what Palestine means to you? So I guess that is already pretty deep. My name is Noel. I am from Cleveland, Ohio but in Palestine I am from the West Bank in a little village called Bethunia.

[00:04:03] I've been organizing here in Cleveland more fairly recently since the current genocide with the Palestinian youth movement and then the broader organization CPAC, the Cleveland Palestine advocacy coalition. And for me this has been kind of a journey into tapping back into my Palestinian identity.

[00:04:19] I unfortunately have never been to Palestine have never visited but my father from a young age has ingrained to us Palestinian culture and identity.

[00:04:27] And I feel that through organizing, I've been able to tap into that a little bit more and fall in love with the place that I've never even visited.

[00:04:35] So I'm sure you know sir, I don't know how to follow that beautiful beautiful introduction to all thank you other than what you've already introduced me as Sarah. I will say that I'm a mom to beautiful young girls named after famous Palestinian women.

[00:04:50] I am a Cleveland transplant. I've been here for seven years and I've been organizing in Austin, Texas and New Orleans, Louisiana but I'm very very happy to call Cleveland home now.

[00:04:58] And as far as what Palestine needs to me it means really everything. It is a place it is home. It's a place where I have been many times but have friends and have family so there my family is from a town called Bidzett.

[00:05:14] It stands for well of olive oil because it is known for its beautiful olive trees.

[00:05:19] It's also the home of Bidzett University which is the University my family had a hand in starting many times when we talk about Palestine people only know that as a place that's like decimated by occupation apartheid and war.

[00:05:32] But this university has actually started as a small girl school by a relative of mine in the 1920s and is a flourishing world renowned academic institution now.

[00:05:40] And so these are the things I think of, but I think about Palestine. I think of it as home. I think of it as learn a beautiful place connected to land where people and community is the primary most important thing in the culture.

[00:05:53] And I really bring that with me here as a Palestinian diaspora to my organizing work, having that sense of community being the most important part of what we do.

[00:06:02] Thank you both for tuning in. Before we dive too much more deeply into the organizing work that you all have been doing in the last six months.

[00:06:10] I was wondering if we could just take a step back and give some context for our listeners who might not be a familiar with the history of how we got here to this moment.

[00:06:19] I think for a lot of folks, you know, they're just in this last six, seven months really learning about the ongoing conflict between Palestine and Israel. And so just wondering if you could help give us some more context about how we got to where we are today.

[00:06:35] I can start us off and all of you want to jump in and support me and help me through this talking about even the history of Palestine. I am not a historian, even if I was an all I did was sit here and read factual history.

[00:06:48] There would still be people who are like, no that's not how you interpret it, that's not how you talk about it.

[00:06:55] So I want to process this by saying, like, I am telling this history through my own lived personal experience and the experiences of my family and the conditions that have led to the realities for Palestinians right now both in diaspora and at home.

[00:07:10] And the way that we understand it through our family histories as well as through the history books is that before the found it or I would say historically the land of Palestine, this Arab area, before colonization,

[00:07:24] particularly was a land of many faiths. We talk about the people of Palestine as people of the book that practice both Judaism, Christianity, Islam and we're also indigenous to the land which means much of the culture there was tied to creating olive oil, olive trees and all of the foods and flora and fauna that flourish in that land.

[00:07:44] But the political realities of the Western world or the politics that were involved in world from world where one all the way through World War II resulted in the anti-Semitism.

[00:07:53] The Western world being imported to Palestine and laid on our foot steps which began with this ongoing building of a political movement, a modern political movement called Zionism, which was a polstered and held up by British and European powers.

[00:08:11] Not as a way to protect the millions of Jews that were killed murdered in the Holocaust and then actively their homes because of anti-Semitism in the European world.

[00:08:23] But as a way to excel them so that Europe didn't have to deal with what they called the Jewish problem quote unquote.

[00:08:29] And that anti-Semitism was exported through colonization to northern Africa and the Middle East, resulting in the expulsion of Arabs who lived very happily as Jews in other Arab countries. My grandfather tells stories of picking oranges and yaffa for works alongside Muslim and Jewish neighbors.

[00:08:46] And that reality that sense of community that allowed Arabs to survive for so long including Palestinians on that land was completely decimated by this imported anti-Semitism from the Western world.

[00:08:59] And the politics of Zionism which included expelling over 750,000 Palestinians from what is now known as Israel into its fleeing them into refugee status across the world during what Palestinians call the Nakaba.

[00:09:15] So while for some people the founding in 1948, which is the founding of the state of Israel, is considered like an independent stay for Israel.

[00:09:24] It's considered a catastrophic day which is what Nakaba translates to for the many Palestinians who had to leave their homes behind and those homes then were taken over by people who were brought from other countries.

[00:09:37] And so that is kind of how we lead or at least understand the current moment because there is this ongoing conversation about what does it mean for Palestinians who were expelled from their homes in 1948, who still carry the keys of the homes that they were kicked out of around their neck.

[00:09:56] And that means for them to return. And also what does it mean for the many Jewish people who have now settled on Palestinian land funded by these Western and Islamic powers as well as the politics of modern Zionism that continue to bring apartheid to those Palestinian lands.

[00:10:15] So this is the ongoing conflict right, this is the ongoing mess that Europe has left behind for us that we are now contending with. 100 years of Palestinians being.

[00:10:30] For example, we talk about Gaza we talk about the walls around the Gaza the 17 year siege that hasn't allowed food or medicine in and out of those walls. Gaza was a city it wasn't a strip until colonization.

[00:10:45] We talk about the West Bank we talk about the fact that people in the West Bank are not allowed to gather their own rainwater because they're being forced to depend on water being collected by Israel as a government and then redistributed.

[00:11:00] So this is what we talk about when we talk about a system of apartheid and I can give example I could spend hours talking about what that looks like for the Palestinian.

[00:11:09] Even for me as an American citizen born here when I travel back there my American passport means nothing. I cannot be led into a place just because he is really government decides that I can't.

[00:11:19] I've been interrogated for hours on end, I'm often you know, we had no Palestinians who have been deported at the border despite the fact they're heritage. Their grandparents are buried on that land.

[00:11:29] They're not allowed to go visit those graves because these really governments are so regardless of their citizenship status non-Palestinians are not treated like that. So that's what we mean by apartheid and that has been the lived reality for Palestinians in some form or another in the West Bank.

[00:11:46] And now the created cause a strip since 1948. You know, did I miss anything that we should add or talk about?

[00:11:53] Yeah, that was such a succinct and yeah great great explanation where we are and to her point I mean you really if you get down to the nitty gritty could spend hours about specific occupation policies or just the daily life of Palestinians.

[00:12:07] And having to live under occupation going through checkpoints and this fear and insecurity that they live in every day due to the occupation. Thank you so much that was an incredibly thorough synopsis there. Thank you.

[00:12:21] Going back to Shireen, you've recently wrote an op-ed in the hill about your cousin and I'm sorry is it lion or lion. LAYEN who was taken from her home in the West Bank and is being illegally detained by the Israeli government.

[00:12:36] Can you tell us more about your op-ed how you felt writing it and about the op-ed in general?

[00:12:41] I don't know if you all saw today that CNN made a report where some Israeli military broke the silence and spoke on the conditions Palestinians in these detention centers in Israel.

[00:12:55] CNN is one of over 10,000 Palestinians helped prisoner by the state of Israel almost 4,000 of them held an administrative detention. What administrative detention means is that they are not required to have any charges in order to detain these bodies.

[00:13:11] They remove them from the West Bank which is against the Geneva Convention. They're not actually allowed to take people out of the West Bank and detain them outside of the 1967 borders but they do anyways.

[00:13:22] There are more-it conditions in these camps ramped reports both by Palestinians and since people don't like to believe Palestinians is really soldiers of sexual and physical abuse on hygienic situations, torture, ongoing, sleep deprivation, just food deprivation, lack of medical care.

[00:13:44] The CNN report did was recreate a medical detention facility where they held Palestinians virtually naked in diapers handcuffs onto hospital beds using medicine as torture. How did I feel writing that op-ed? I'm horrible.

[00:14:00] Thinking that someone in my family who I've met once, I do not know her well but that is because of the occupation.

[00:14:12] Because my family has been displaced, my parents have moved to multiple countries before they could settle here and hopes of giving us their children a better life.

[00:14:21] But watching what's going on to all Palestinians back home much less people I'm related to and could have had a beautiful relationship with if it wasn't for this occupation is heart-wrenching. What is maybe the most heart-wrenching?

[00:14:37] One of course is knowing that this happens to so many Palestinians including my family, but too knowing that we pay for it.

[00:14:45] Knowing that the reason Israel and Israeli military can take my cousin against international law outside of the West Bank and to tame her against in the 1967 borders is because there's no accountability for Israeli military actions.

[00:15:00] We see that even now after the death of 34,000 Muslims and it is kind of absurdists and I often feel as I wrote in the op-ed that I'm living in the toilet zone.

[00:15:12] Because as an American I've been taught all of these democratic values and these values of justice and care for your neighbor. That's what I remember learning growing up.

[00:15:24] But it often seems like these politicians and power right now have forgotten that or maybe we went to two different Americas.

[00:15:31] I don't know, but what I'm seeing is a country perpetuating rampant human rights abuses not being held accountable and actually being paid exorbitant amounts of money to do that.

[00:15:43] And writing that op-ed was an experience of just like real self-regulation trying to fit all of these overwhelming feelings into 850 words and then begging someone to please hear the story of my family and the story of Palestinians.

[00:15:58] Because this is the first time in my remembrance in my life of decades of organizing work as a Palestinian where maybe people are listening, but it's still not translating to accountability. Yeah, thank you for sharing that.

[00:16:13] I can't imagine what that must be like writing that and yeah, just still organizing because I know you've been we spoke several months ago and you're telling me about some of the work that you've been doing in Northeast Ohio.

[00:16:26] I would the Cleveland Palestine advocacy community CPAC and it sounds so beautiful. It's a multi-generational intersection of HUD for organizing and supporting and solidarity with Palestinians. For 17 weeks Cleveland is continuously paks at the council meeting and demanding a ceasefire resolution.

[00:16:44] And Cleveland became the longest running city in America pushing for a ceasefire resolution. I remember when I think when we spoke Columbus had already passed theirs and Cleveland was lagging behind. But on March 25th, Cleveland City Council finally passed the resolution for a ceasefire and Gaza.

[00:16:59] Can you share with our listeners just what that experience has been like how did the community come together to organize and advocate for this? Yeah, absolutely. Quick corrections. So Columbus and Cleveland actually passed it on the same day.

[00:17:11] At the time we had spoken James Columbus had had two of their members make a personal ceasefire statement but it not passed the ceasefire resolution.

[00:17:19] Yeah, and I think one of the reasons I'd make that correction is because we think some of the pressures on Cleveland were not just community pressures, but I'm going statewide efforts for ceasefire resolution.

[00:17:30] I think one of the most beautiful things about this moment and this movement for Palestine is it is bringing so many communities together across the US. So many that have been fragmented, you know, this country is segregated.

[00:17:45] I talk about this as someone who's from the south, even coming up to Cleveland like our communities are so intentionally segregated.

[00:17:53] So watching the movement for Palestine pushes together, or assist a talk to each other and sometimes have uncomfortable conversations about real authentic solidarity is one of my favorite things about what we're doing right now.

[00:18:05] The city seats fire resolution that we passed here in Cleveland not only was it a reflection of statewide efforts and this intersectional work here in Cleveland around communities coming together in solidarity.

[00:18:16] It was also an expression of the power we have as a community that I think is forgotten by a lot of our elected representatives.

[00:18:26] I think this was a reminder that we are here and that we have a power in numbers, and that we can in fact show up. And so I think you know earlier I talked about that accountability.

[00:18:39] I think the work that we did for a city ceasefire resolution in Cleveland is our reminder that the people will hold our elected representatives accountable for what they do. And it awoke I think a thirst to hunger and people to continue that work of accountability.

[00:18:53] One of my favorite things about this solidarity work as well is getting to debunk this ongoing narrative that to be Palestinian is anti-Semitic. That is important to me for two reasons.

[00:19:08] I am lucky to live in a country where though we have been segregated there are lots of places where I have friends and that I consider family that don't have the same life stories that I have.

[00:19:20] And so for me getting told that I'm anti-Semitic because I'm purely because I'm Palestinian and speak up for Palestinian rights is how we twist and politically use anti-Semitism as a weapon against not just Palestinians, but what we're learning in this current moment.

[00:19:35] And so I think that's the first thing we can do is to help people including Jewish folks who speak up for Palestinian rights. And working on this Cleveland city ceasefire resolution, see one of our coalition members in CPAC is Jewish voice for peace.

[00:19:48] And there are a number also of other Jewish organizations that have spoken up alongside CPAC. And so that's the power to send that my grandfather told me about this world that we had pre colonization where we could all work together in solidarity.

[00:20:04] So I want to just highlight that as such an important piece of this because once we got that city ceasefire resolution, this solidarity has not stopped. And in fact it has gained more momentum and we've now moved it to county.

[00:20:18] And ask for a ceasefire is a pretty simple ask. It's an ask that I mean simple on its surface, though obviously we can see that our politicians do not find it so simple.

[00:20:27] But see if our resolution asks for three things one stop the bombing everybody to return all the hostages every single one of them on both sides.

[00:20:37] And three provide me an interior aid into Gaza which because right now, starvation is being used as a weapon against people in Gaza. But for us as Palestinians, these asks are crumbs because great we get a ceasefire and yet Palestinian, they're still under apartheid in occupation.

[00:20:54] So we recognize that this movement cannot stop at ceasefire and the next move is divestment. And so we've moved the solidarity and the work and the efforts around their city ceasefire resolution to Kyihoghikani where there are $16 million, health and what is called Israel bonds.

[00:21:12] Our essentially unrestricted loans to the Israeli government. I could talk about them for a long time and won't bore free folks with the details unless you all have more questions about Israel bonds.

[00:21:21] But suffice to say that we submitted a record request to Kyihoghikani and we have clear evidence that our Kyihoghikani officials know that the money that they put into Israel bonds is used one to buy weapons in Israel.

[00:21:34] And it's also used to fund their education and health care system which we can't seem to get in this country.

[00:21:41] So there is not only are we pushing for divestment because we should have ethical investments of our tax dollars, but we're pushing for that money to come back home.

[00:21:52] Because I worked in the schools here, my degrees in school psychology that's where I do my research and my kids are drinking water full of Latin can't get textbooks in their classrooms.

[00:22:01] And at the point we say, we do not want to fund turning little Palestinian children into skeletons. We want to fund education healthcare for kids here at home. And so we find that this issue of Palestine truly is so interconnected.

[00:22:16] And it's helping us have these really much needed conversations about where our money is going, how is it being invested and why isn't it being invested for us?

[00:22:28] So that's kind of where the CDC's virus solution came from and where it's going. And I want to say like maybe I should wrap this up that when we were working on the CDC's virus solution literally everyone including the president of Cleveland City Council told us it wasn't gonna happen.

[00:22:44] Clearly told us it was not gonna happen, but that's why this Cs virus solution is a clear indicator that when the people come together we win.

[00:22:58] And I hope to see that people continue to come together and we can hold all of our institutions accountable from Cleveland City Council to Kyle, hope it counseled the case Western Reserve University to the state house to the federal government.

[00:23:11] You just trying to give me the perfect segue here because our next question is for Noel, so case Western University students set up their encampment the people's university for Palestine on Heinz Oval on April 29th as part of a national and international students movement students are calling on university officials to die vast case western finances from Israel.

[00:23:33] After 10 days of the encampment it shifted to a sit-in at the University of Ministry of offices before the demonstrations ended on May 9th. During the encampment there were a wide range of programs such as teachings art builds music and dance performances in her faith, Shabbat and shared meals. Can you talk a little bit about your personal experience on the encampment please.

[00:23:54] Yeah absolutely. So I want to preface that the work that the students were doing like through the encampment or through like pushing for Palestinian liberation and divestment didn't start with the.

[00:24:05] I'm encampment. STP at case had been working for quite a while to try to push for divestment at their university through other methods in 2022 they had pushed for resolution 3115 which called for case to fully divest its investments toward Israeli apartheid toward the international military industrial complex and the international prison industrial complex.

[00:24:28] And at the time then and as we had witnessed for the past 11 days they were met with accusations of being anti-Semitic, of being hateful and being naive.

[00:24:37] And although the resolution ended up passing through the undergraduate student government caler the president of case categorically rejected all of the calls to action in the resolution.

[00:24:48] And so on April 29 the students decide to escalate through this encampment with six demands amnesty for students and faculty were disciplined for fighting for Palestinian liberation.

[00:24:59] And so the first time I've seen the statement obviously from investments from Israeli profiteers disclosure of case investments students have a right to know where their money is going.

[00:25:09] Retracting statements that were supporting Israel condemning students and condemning the resolution that they had passed calling for a permanent ceasefire and end occupation and then cutting ties with Israeli academic institutions such as study abroad programs.

[00:25:23] And so the level progression from the work that had been doing before and on the first day after having barely set up. The administration came down with threats of police intervention which they did not bring in dragging students out of tents and zip tying them.

[00:25:36] But after that initial day students alongside with the community were able to establish and hold down the encampment and turn it into such a beautiful display of what community care could look like.

[00:25:48] And always so separated by things like capitalism through teachings through interfaith prayers we had more people coming dropping off things for the encampment then we had no idea what to do with food other things.

[00:26:02] And alongside of that while we were supporting the students they continued to try to reach out to the administration to have discussions and again we're just met with false accusations, aggression and threats of discipline for it.

[00:26:15] For me it was so inspiring to see students who during their finals week where I remember being in college and how insane that time was where I barely could focus on anything else and how they were dedicating their time in tense late at night trying to study while also standing up for their demands as someone as part of the community.

[00:26:37] I recognize that this is part of a larger movement on that the students while they are focusing on divestment from their university.

[00:26:44] It's part of a larger movement I divestment as a shooting set from Kaya Gakauni from the state and then all the way up to the federal level it's all connected.

[00:26:52] So when students were met with comments of outside agitators coming in it's negating kind of this big picture of Palestinian liberation is you know not just connected directly to the school but through our tax dollars and through all of our participation here in the United States.

[00:27:10] I think for the student and cabinet case and then this broader student movement that we've been seeing is kind of this like re energizing to the movement that we haven't seen for a while.

[00:27:18] I think so many people as we've been watching these atrocities just get worse and worse every day we open our phones and I can't.

[00:27:27] I can't think of you know something worse that I can see and then I do and so having this kind of like re energizing from the student population which we've seen historically through student movements.

[00:27:41] I think we've seen a new avenue of us to not only bridge community with organizing that we've been doing here in Cleveland to a new population that we haven't worked as closely with.

[00:27:51] But gives kind of a space to grow together and for me has been something that is just it's been an enjoyable way for us to come to community but also a just a harsh reality of what we were what we've been facing overall.

[00:28:08] I think all enjoyed being at the encampment and being in solidarity with one another this level of uncertainty the entire week of threats of sweeping our threats of discipline or we had agitators come into the the camp trying to balance those while also focusing on our demands and not getting caught up with the distractions that the administration was trying to push on everybody.

[00:28:30] It was something that I think was truly inspiring for the community and re energizing for us pushing the movement forward. You both worked with some old Paul members and I think are you both on the board of opal or just want to use in the board.

[00:28:45] I know you'll work with opal and Cleveland to host the community art bill for Palestine. Our community members and families created direct action visuals such as banners, posters, postcards for Palestine and you also fundraise for the more tager family and Gaza by selling art.

[00:29:02] I was wondering if you could speak a little bit about the role that art and artists are playing and the work you're doing up there.

[00:29:10] One of I don't remember the exact quote and I wish I remember who said it so I hope we'll not butcher this but someone got up at that art event inside. The role of the artist in the movement is to make the movement irresistible.

[00:29:24] I know that's a popular quote so I'm like definitely kicking myself or not knowing who said it but I cannot imagine any movement for change without our dreamers. Without our documentters, without the people to inspire us and I truly believe that that's what artists do.

[00:29:43] We've had several art builds we have one ongoing at the city to help with operate the circle where we'll have some art.

[00:29:51] And these art build activities are just such a moment for us to be able to not always just be in the fight but to sit and reflect and to dream and to be with each other to create. So they're very much recharging and my daughter loves them.

[00:30:08] I have a one and a three year old and like every time she always asked me to leave the house are we going are we gonna be outside because she wants to have it's gonna be protest so as we're gonna be outside if it's gonna be loud.

[00:30:18] And so ask if we'll get to do art. If I say there's art involved she is ready to go and fact no I was one of her favorite people.

[00:30:25] Hang out with when we got to do art build because she loves to paint like water villains and she helped with some of the banners last time and you know that's what it like palstines have always been very intergenerational.

[00:30:35] So the space where we can create art is a place where you know we try to make everything a place where everyone can come but art is certainly a place where that's a little easier to make space for everyone.

[00:30:46] Yeah and I'll just add just kind of like Palestinian art just being a former resistance the circle event that we're doing at the Cleveland Museum of Art has very strict rules about things being quote unquote not political.

[00:30:57] Which we know everything is political but they have very specific rules regarding language and a flags being used and so. This art building series that we're doing leading up to this parade is really an opportunity for us to lean into the symbolism and culture of Palestine.

[00:31:12] And being able to highlight those such as watermelon olive trees, but trees all sorts of like beautiful Palestinian culture in nature and just shows how deeply connected we are to our land and to our people.

[00:31:26] And I think it's also I think a shooting set is just another way to bring in people to the movement not everyone I think is ready to be out into the streets or feels hesitant to do more escalated actions but it's such a I think when we do these events brings in such a different crowd of people who feel that they're able to express themselves.

[00:31:46] And in a productive way like through our using art as a form of resistance or expression for Palestinian liberation.

[00:31:53] Beautiful answers thank you so we're actually kind of getting to the end here so just outside of just you know human empathy why should folks here in Ohio care about Palestine and what are things that people can do to join the movement or to support either of your individual work.

[00:32:12] I know a lot of people in this moment who do feel like they want to disengage, disengage because of the narrative that this issue is complex or it's too much or they don't want to hurt anyone's feelings I get all of that.

[00:32:27] But we need these moments that are uncomfortable to be able to move forward in a better way we have to engage in this discussion and I will say to every person that you might want to disengage but you cannot because our tax dollars 3.8 billion dollars a year.

[00:32:46] Go to these rally military and use rally government that is more foreign aid than give it to any other country on the globe. So American politics and our tax dollars are labor goes to the state of Israel so whether or not you like it you're involved.

[00:33:07] And so I really encourage people to be thoughtful because of that question of accountability because if this is what we're allowing to happen with our money on foreign soil what is happening with our money on home soil.

[00:33:21] The same mechanisms that allow bombs to drop on 15,000 children in Gaza are the same mechanisms that incarcerate our children here. So we really need to be thinking about what cost do we pay personally when we disengage from these questions.

[00:33:39] And if it feels a little like I'm not sure where to start just show up come to one thing.

[00:33:45] Dan on the side come talk to me here now well like this truly is a moment to find your footing and you can only do that if you're willing to get a little uncomfortable.

[00:33:58] There's also plenty of online spaces bookstores the hundred year one in Palestine, but she's like a very easy intro where he tells his family story through the lens of history.

[00:34:10] There are so many movies to watch like funa has a movie on Netflix that you can watch to learn about the neck of a there really are so many entry points.

[00:34:19] I would just encourage people pick one thing if you haven't already pick one thing just do that one thing and see where it takes you.

[00:34:28] Yeah, and I would just reiterate that there there is a place for everyone in the movement everyone comes with their own skills, their own connections, their own ideas. And whether it's through art through direct action through political organizing there is a space for everyone here and.

[00:34:46] As shoulding said you are involved whether you want to be or not and so it's kind of taking a look in the mirror and recognizing you know in this moment now.

[00:34:54] What am I doing to not only better myself but better the future for the future generations coming through and creating the world that you want to live in think a lot of us like organizing here.

[00:35:07] A large part of our motivation for this movement is we recognize that there is a better way that there is a better world that we see.

[00:35:16] Pulse time in liberation and what that could look like and through things like art we create these ideas and so I would just also yeah encourage you to just pick one event come and speak to anyone from there and I think as well.

[00:35:32] This is just not only been organizing here in Cleveland for our goal of Palestinian liberation but has been a building of community as well.

[00:35:42] I have never felt such a sense of community as I have now organizing here in Cleveland and meeting the people I've met we have bridge so many connections across social movements and have really developed this collective fight for liberation and it's been so beautiful to witness and I would encourage anyone to tap in and be involved in that.

[00:36:02] Thank you both so much for joining us and sharing so much even like just the context and historical grounding that you provided with so rich. I prefer to get history from organizers than historians anyway.

[00:36:14] So yeah, you both shared so much and the work that you're doing is had such a big impact already and this issue touches all of us we're all complicit there's so many intersections.

[00:36:27] So if you're listening and please take a screenshot and know I'll up on their invitation to get involved. You know there's this you just have to jump in the water. You know as I think about what we're going from here.

[00:36:38] I'm sure my idea of when I was doing stuff early in the days of moving for black lives were come 10 years ago was when Ferguson erupted after my brown was murdered.

[00:36:48] I always remembered that some of the earliest folks to stand in solidarity with the people in Ferguson were folks in Palestine who are sharing on Twitter.

[00:36:56] How to deal with being tear gas you know like how you could you know with homemade ingredients you know treat wounds and ever since then you know there's just been such an inseparable linkage between.

[00:37:11] Those two movements and I have a lot of friends who were able to go over to visit still salty. I was not included on that trip.

[00:37:18] I'm just really, really grateful for you all joining us sharing all these experiences and really, really grateful for what you all've done and inspired by the work that you've accomplished. Thank you both and please if you're listening get in touch.

[00:37:31] Did you already share where we're folks can follow what there are other. So, because CPAC is a coalition you can actually follow Cleveland dot Palestine on Instagram and almost every single one of our posts is co-app with organizations from Cincinnati all the way up here to Cleveland.

[00:37:49] Folks who are doing this and some national works are folks doing this work so easiest thing to do is go to Cleveland dot Palestine on Instagram take a look at some of the people we collaborate with to learn about all the works that are involved.

[00:38:01] Also be sure to include like links to the book and film you mentioned just everything will be all in one place in the show notes for anyone who is looking for those. Thanks for listening to this episode.

[00:38:19] Make sure you listen to part two where we talk about what's good with the college students leading the protest in Ohio for divestment and a free house time.