What's Good with the Black Women's Health Survey

[00:00:15] What's Good Ohio on your host, James Hayes, and this is The Whats Good Ohio podcast.

[00:00:20] We talk to the activists, organizers, visionaries and good treble makers coming together

[00:00:25] to make our state better for everyone.

[00:00:28] No exceptions.

[00:00:29] As always I'm joined by Sarah Rottenberg from Policy Matters Ohio.

[00:00:33] Whats Good Sarah?

[00:00:34] Hey James, it's good to see you.

[00:00:37] Over at Policy Matters we've mostly just been working on the paper which is the topic

[00:00:41] of this episode.

[00:00:42] So we are working in coalition with Ohio, organizing collaborative and two of their sub-sex

[00:00:50] Amos Project and the CEO Project in releasing this Black Womens Health Survey.

[00:00:56] And that's what we're going to be talking about today so I'm not going to go more into

[00:00:59] it and spoil it all.

[00:01:01] Whats Good Over at Ohio Voice James.

[00:01:03] Oh bunch of stuff getting ready for this election.

[00:01:05] Lots of voter protection.

[00:01:06] And last week we had an organizing boot camp.

[00:01:10] We brought some of our partners together myself and OWF to ref our training director.

[00:01:16] We did an organizing training for two days and it was a lot of fun.

[00:01:20] And I'm looking forward to doing some more that in-person training after the selection

[00:01:24] is over and we, the dust kind of settles.

[00:01:27] But there's so much going on right now.

[00:01:28] Last week there was that Sheriff and Portage County who said he was going to write down

[00:01:33] everybody's name anyway.

[00:01:35] All sorts of stuff.

[00:01:35] So everything's Springfield, the like straight up domestic terrorism going on, targeting

[00:01:41] the Haitian community there.

[00:01:42] So this is a lot happening but very excited for this conversation today and to get into it.

[00:02:02] Today we're discussing a new report released by the Care Economy Organizing or CEO

[00:02:07] Project and Policy Matters, Ohio that focuses on the unique health challenges faced by

[00:02:12] Black women in the state.

[00:02:14] The report which is based on a comprehensive survey of over 500 Black women in Ohio's

[00:02:18] major metropolitan areas explores disparities in access to care, affordability and

[00:02:23] patient experience.

[00:02:25] The survey results can help inform efforts to address the disproportionate health challenges

[00:02:29] faced by Black women in Ohio including higher maternal mortality rates and delayed breast

[00:02:33] cancer diagnoses.

[00:02:35] We are excited to welcome back CEO Project Director Tammy Loonan and we're also honored

[00:02:40] to be joined by Amos Project Faith Organizers, Jackie Moore and Jocelyn Clark who both bring

[00:02:45] expertise and lived experience to this discussion.

[00:02:49] Thank you all for being here.

[00:02:50] Thank you for having us.

[00:02:53] I don't know, if we could just begin with each of you sharing a little bit with our listeners

[00:02:59] about yourselves, what you do and maybe a little bit about what brought you into doing

[00:03:02] this work.

[00:03:03] I don't know who wants to go first.

[00:03:04] We can do nose and nose.

[00:03:06] Yeah, he's been really first.

[00:03:09] Okay, my name is Jackie Moore and I am the pay for organization course in Dayton, Ohio.

[00:03:15] As I was saying before, my first started doing this type of work I was working with at

[00:03:20] one with the built in Freedom of Ohio.

[00:03:23] Then we kind of got shifted to the Amos section of it and started trying to get pastures

[00:03:30] and church and bulk of that matter.

[00:03:32] Faith people to be more involved in what's going on with our justice system.

[00:03:37] That was a heart task.

[00:03:39] I don't know if you know dealing with pastures as a headache.

[00:03:41] Okay, and be because there's a schedule that are crazy and they just didn't want

[00:03:47] more than to be put on their agenda.

[00:03:50] So it was kind of hard getting into that system.

[00:03:53] When they started saying, well, you know what?

[00:03:55] Let's do another twist and do black women's health.

[00:03:59] I had no idea that this was going to be not just a campaign but a movement, women of color.

[00:04:07] I just can't say black women.

[00:04:08] Women of color have had such a horrendous time, just stand alive and it's not fair.

[00:04:16] It shouldn't happen.

[00:04:17] And the more more, I talk to women, the more more I get excited about the fact that we're

[00:04:22] going to do something.

[00:04:23] At least try to do something about it.

[00:04:24] I keep kicking myself like I should have been doing this years ago but the time is now

[00:04:30] and I'm not going to stop until I see some type of change.

[00:04:34] So the survey itself was just an eye opener.

[00:04:38] I mean, we kind of knew some of the things because of course I'm a black woman in my 60s.

[00:04:43] So you know, I've lived some of these issues but to hear some of the old women still at this

[00:04:49] date and time not having the tools they need just to stay alive.

[00:04:54] It's just ridiculous.

[00:04:55] So yeah, that's why brought me in this work.

[00:04:57] I will say I am a PK, which is a preacher's kid.

[00:05:04] And so faith has always been a part of my life for 42 years.

[00:05:08] It's all I know.

[00:05:08] It's always worked in the church and before I came on board with aimists, I work in outreach

[00:05:14] at our church for 15 years and doing different programs that benefited our city and

[00:05:21] our community.

[00:05:22] But then I had a tragic incident happen in my family, which kind of redirected my focus

[00:05:27] and when this became available, when I was able to help women, like the Shackets

[00:05:35] that women of color from my tragedy and my story, it was a no brainer.

[00:05:40] It was a no brainer for me to come on board and do what was necessary to get this

[00:05:46] word out.

[00:05:47] So that's how I came on board.

[00:05:50] Awesome.

[00:05:50] Yeah, and Tammy, I know you've been on before, but if you can share a little bit about

[00:05:53] the work that y'all are doing and remind our listeners who you are, too.

[00:05:57] Yeah, how do you, how the Tammy Loonin, the care economy organizing director at the

[00:06:02] OLC, I lead the CDO project, but also connected to that work is our health justice

[00:06:09] work that I also lead through our healthy voices coalition that policy matters is also

[00:06:16] part of they've been wonderful thought partners as we look to dive a little bit deeper

[00:06:22] into Black women's health and part of the work that we do through the healthy voices.

[00:06:28] It is really to think about the health of families, so there's a lot of different ways

[00:06:33] that we do advocacy different issues that we lift up from Medicaid access to infant mortality

[00:06:41] and maternal mortality.

[00:06:42] We wanted to take a more holistic approach to how we look at this work this year, really

[00:06:49] kind of rooting it in what people are experiencing.

[00:06:54] There are different things that we're going to lift up always just because it falls

[00:06:58] within that bucket of work, but we wanted to have like real people, real people stories

[00:07:03] anchoring our health work and that's where the survey was born from.

[00:07:07] We're super excited to you know release the survey later this week to the public and continue

[00:07:14] to have these conversations about how Black women's health really should be at the forefront.

[00:07:20] Everybody has talked about a little bit about like having a personal story and it could be

[00:07:26] you really like pan back. Most people have a story connected to some common inequity that they've

[00:07:34] experienced as it relates to the health justice system, even with myself there's been stuff that I've had to navigate.

[00:07:41] When I've needed to utilize as a person with insurance, I've had negative experiences,

[00:07:46] advocated for myself and getting that actual things that I needed to thrive.

[00:07:51] And so I think like this is one of these conversations that we really start to peel into it.

[00:07:57] You kind of see that everybody's connected to it. So I'm excited to go a little bit deeper,

[00:08:02] but yeah that's the angle that I'm coming from. Thank you so much. Well yeah let's go deeper

[00:08:08] because the next question is just what are any like significant themes that stood out to you

[00:08:13] from the survey results or any trends that you know stood out or surprised you and we can start with

[00:08:20] whoever. I think for me it was the whole idea of Black women feeling that they needed to look a

[00:08:29] certain way in order to get treated fairly in the doctors office and at hospitals on sub-to-surveys.

[00:08:35] They were saying like oh I feel like if I don't dress up, I'm not taken serious or I'm not treated

[00:08:42] as kind or as better as everyone else. And so that was not shocking with kind of discerving and

[00:08:49] depending on the type of insurance they had as well depends on the type of treatment that they were

[00:08:54] getting. There are so many things that were shocking to me, but those two stood out the most

[00:08:59] I would say those were the most hurtful and impactful for me. I would say the affordability and the

[00:09:05] accessibility of insurance or being able to go to the doctor or not going or not having a procedure

[00:09:13] done because they can't afford it or can't get off work or can't find a babysitter all the above.

[00:09:21] And one lady needed actually to have heart transfer, heart surgery, chest and blockage in a

[00:09:28] heart. And she said I still haven't done it done yet. I'm like you know like depends on that you have to.

[00:09:34] So we do what we could and found some people to watch her child for while she's able to.

[00:09:40] It's just crazy but that's the black folks do. We try to help you, so if we try to be there

[00:09:45] well I remember at the time when I was coming up and we reached the bar and sugar, ice, whatever from

[00:09:50] next to our neighbors. We were a big family. Oh, huge family of huge neighborhood of

[00:09:55] folk who need each other and depend on each other. So that's what it needs to get back to. But if

[00:10:01] necessary but just the idea of this woman not been able to go to a doctor, not being able to

[00:10:07] get the help that she needed to stay alive because she couldn't afford it or couldn't afford the

[00:10:12] time of the work or not having a babysitter or whatever situation maybe to think it's just ridiculous.

[00:10:19] There's 2,000 24 we shouldn't be doing this but unfortunately we are. I think for me there's a lot

[00:10:26] of interesting things that came out in the report. I think that this was a shocker to me but just

[00:10:32] for it to be like said or stated just so many people that have barriers to getting the help that

[00:10:40] based on the cost even when they have insurance. People just only concerned about the cost.

[00:10:45] Can I afford to be well? And that just being an overall overwhelming theme of this survey,

[00:10:52] I think like that was one of the things that typically we think about oh I have access to insurance

[00:10:58] right and that doesn't even include all the folks that don't have access. But that was a huge thing

[00:11:03] for both people with access to insurance and for people without access to insurance was the

[00:11:09] care. Can I afford to be well? Yeah. It's like that was such an important takeaway when we think

[00:11:16] about what women's wellness could mean for the entire family and for the success of the family.

[00:11:23] That was one of the things that was really eye-opening to me. As you said that Tammy also

[00:11:29] so many people that had care source and still couldn't get into the doctors because the doctors

[00:11:34] won't take it. And that's just crazy. I mean that's the insurance that is nothing the government

[00:11:40] insurance right? That Obama said and most doctors don't take it anymore because of what I guess

[00:11:45] they don't pay enough but yeah to have the insurance still can't get the service. Yeah. I know

[00:11:50] that Medicaid also very much limits like your choices for who you go to see so when that's already

[00:11:56] something that you're struggling to find a doctor even if you got the best insurance and now you

[00:12:00] have that not this one not this one. And then you're waiting months and months and months.

[00:12:06] Right to get to even get an appointment right. Yeah, that was actually like when we were in this

[00:12:14] is this was necessarily from the survey but just from like the conversations that we were having

[00:12:18] what women were talking about the health work. One of the things that came out at my base was just

[00:12:25] these moms were talking about how up and lime other was like a I think like a six to seven

[00:12:33] month wait for folks to get into the dentist to get their kids into the dentist. And I just was like

[00:12:38] wow you're not thinking about that that's like delaying people because you have to have all of

[00:12:43] those records in order for the kids to be able to get into some type of school or child care and

[00:12:49] then we're talking about the weight and I believe that this was based on like Medicaid or whatever but

[00:12:54] these are the kind of things that are coming up in conversation just like not even connected to

[00:12:59] the survey but when we start to talk about what are the barriers to folks being well,

[00:13:04] there's so many different things that come up that we don't typically think about and it's like how

[00:13:09] do we start to streamline some of these systems right so they actually work for the folks that need them.

[00:13:15] So and that utilize on my feet with them rely on them. Not for sure and obviously you know

[00:13:20] these trends don't exist in isolation and everything's rooted in these larger systemic and historical

[00:13:28] issues. So I was wondering if you all could just talk a little about how do the historic and

[00:13:33] systemic inequalities and healthcare continue to shape the way that black women engage

[00:13:37] with the medical system today? You know I just recently learned at another conference that I was at

[00:13:44] that Medicaid advantage was on Providence insurance that not really through Medicaid but they got

[00:13:50] people thinking that it's through Medicaid and it came from wrong and so what happens is that they

[00:13:55] get you over to the Medicare advantage and then most of the things that you try to get done that

[00:14:00] you were able to get done through Medicare are denied because that's what this company is about

[00:14:06] saving money. So right now they said and now I'm potent that working on this policy in other

[00:14:12] sort of million claims have been denied this year and it's just ridiculous and like and I get it

[00:14:19] I went to a dentist myself and my co-pay from my dental bill was 7,642 dollars.

[00:14:27] I'm like who can pay that? So I had to get alone to pay that bill all because I couldn't get the

[00:14:35] rest. I couldn't get the other part of my dentist's street done until that whole bill was paid.

[00:14:41] So I just think big books is always about making money. You know about the cares about health,

[00:14:46] about the cares if you live a dime. If a child is 7 months, they need to know two, two pull

[00:14:52] whatever so you think about that's germs and infection. He grew not who cares. You know nobody cares

[00:14:58] is all about making money. It pisses me off. I'm sorry I hope I can say that but you absolutely can.

[00:15:07] I think it's the fear the cost. If I go to the hospital how much is it going to cost? Why

[00:15:13] get this surgery? How much is it going to cost? There are so many factors that play into the

[00:15:18] finite like financially why people don't go our community does not go to the doctor which is

[00:15:23] also sad because your insurance might cover a small percentage and then you're left with

[00:15:29] thousands upon thousands of dollars on the medical bills that you have to try to pay if you have

[00:15:33] a family especially in this climate right now. And grocery being so high tech,

[00:15:39] have that added stress. It's just like I would just rather not go with what was the sad or they

[00:15:46] say out of you know most men I'm not going to doctor I don't want to find out. I don't know anything

[00:15:51] so what I don't know will more hurt me and then they end up dying. Yeah it's fear it's just the fear

[00:15:58] of me. Yeah you'll see this charge. James go to the doctor. I did go to see her but yeah

[00:16:12] no it's this year. I hate navigating with it's this terrible and I'm gonna talk about money

[00:16:18] and financial issues and it just seemed like all these questions around health and disparities

[00:16:23] at the end of the day they come down to economic and wealth inequalities and the historical gap

[00:16:31] that we inherited and we've been fighting and clung our way out but it's still there. It's still there.

[00:16:36] It shows up in everything education housing but I feel it will feel like the most in health care

[00:16:42] obviously. Yeah I think like one of the things that I was say that I've uncovered is I've been doing

[00:16:48] this work is like a lot of the things that were facing today is a relic of some other system

[00:16:53] that was designed to not work for folks like us or to work for folks in our communities.

[00:16:59] It's a relic of some past system right child care is a relic of slavery right health care

[00:17:05] was always set up in this way to like disproportionately impact people of color even you know

[00:17:12] from its inception access being the number one barrier right being able to even find a doctor

[00:17:17] still is a it's still an issue right but then we see these other things kind of like you mentioned

[00:17:23] James there's this huge income gap the rich keep getting rich and we we see how all of these things

[00:17:29] kind of work together which is why democracy we don't think about health care as an issue that's

[00:17:36] connected to democracy right but there's a study that kind of showed how Ohio has similar demographics

[00:17:45] to Minnesota but people in Minnesota have a 10 year longer life expectancy because they have more

[00:17:55] democratic systems and like that was eye opening to me right which is why like there's this

[00:18:01] reason that we actually have to organize around this which kind of brings us back to why we start

[00:18:05] collecting the service so we can take folks down a pathway the first part of it is you know what is

[00:18:11] your experience and then it's okay how do we move this into something that we could actually

[00:18:16] go and fight for because all of these systems are connected to democracy or like a democracy

[00:18:24] and the way that it is operating in our state is like operating on our bodies and it's not just

[00:18:31] from the health care perspective it's just like James said his health care housing is child care

[00:18:36] all of these things happens to set up in a way that disproportionately impacts folks on the margins

[00:18:42] and that's the conversation that we want to be able to have with women there's a reason that

[00:18:47] you are experiencing these systems in this way there is how or that you have that we can start

[00:18:52] to cultivate so that we can break some of these barriers down right we can start to like

[00:18:58] should that some of these systems that we know were designed in a way to not work.

[00:19:04] That's powerful yeah and I was in years longer life expectancy I mean that that's a

[00:19:09] hell of a campaign you know hey who wants to live ten years longer this is why policy matters

[00:19:14] hey they're they don't do it so yeah now that's powerful and I think making that narrative

[00:19:22] clear to people that we actually can't have a better quality of life if we make these changes

[00:19:26] or to a way we do policy the way that we how much democracy we have everything you just said

[00:19:31] that's exactly and this actually kind of goes to what Jackie said much earlier in the episode

[00:19:37] about communities this question is about given all of these inequities what role do we see

[00:19:43] the community playing in addressing these disparities and how can communities better support

[00:19:49] their members who are black women in accessing quality care and I think you made one

[00:19:54] perfect example which is watching their children while they go to the doctor but can we talk a

[00:19:59] little bit more about that one of the main things we started hearing is that women go into the

[00:20:04] doctors that doctors like rushing them through their appointments and we're like you know you

[00:20:09] have at least 15 minutes so don't take anything with and if you don't understand what he's saying

[00:20:15] get your phone out and record it or take somebody with you even still if that doesn't work put

[00:20:22] him on blast and call one of your friends up put them on FaceTime and have somebody with you who

[00:20:29] can understand because they thought all these big words at you if I'm 80 years old my 80 year

[00:20:33] of you know my grandmother won't have anybody find somebody's 80 year grandmother you tell

[00:20:38] all these things is wrong with this you don't understand or she's not going to even remember

[00:20:41] so write it down bring somebody with you and we've even seen where doctors have been upset

[00:20:47] that folk are breaking you know somebody with them or or record and would say hey hold on

[00:20:53] minute you know I still got five minutes left I'm serious I know I started doing that and I

[00:20:58] started realizing that my own doctor is also my elder at my church so he was for sure

[00:21:04] as we said blurring the lines with my appointment he'll do five minutes or whatever okay you're

[00:21:10] okay then it's all about my church stuff like a whole the you know church stuff stays a church

[00:21:15] this is my I'm paying you for this I want my whole 15 minutes what I still need just being

[00:21:21] bold enough to say that but most of us think we have to take whatever is given to us because we

[00:21:27] have you done that for so long yeah that took a great I think having advocates being able to go

[00:21:34] with singers even if churches could provide that community centers can provide that

[00:21:39] I just think that we will see a difference in healthcare how we're treated our diagnosis

[00:21:45] because like you said sometimes people just don't know and they don't know the questions to ask

[00:21:51] and I feel like in our family we have this thing where somebody has to go we don't let anybody

[00:21:58] go to a doctor appointment or whatever it's just something that we do amongst our families so that

[00:22:03] somebody else can hear with the doctor saying and maybe I have some questions that my mom didn't

[00:22:07] think about asking and so I think if we see more of that if we see more advocacy advocates to

[00:22:13] take our seniors or our single moms whatever we could probably see a difference in a change yeah

[00:22:19] absolutely I think to like handing out just a little bit to issue like for example black

[00:22:27] mothers mortality rates whereas like black women don't have more in childbirth than any

[00:22:32] other person right and that and that making do-less necessary right and like that being one of the

[00:22:40] issues that we've been pretty active on and making sure that we're in community around it because

[00:22:45] those are folks that can help and be active give counsel and can also like help another when

[00:22:53] they're navigating right so just thinking through what are some of the resources that our communities need

[00:22:59] community health workers different folks like that I think those are some of the structural changes

[00:23:05] within the system that we can have do more work around right medication at there are more

[00:23:10] those folks so folks do actually understand what a diagnosis mean what does this you know what

[00:23:17] this is particularly thing me is this something I have to do or something I don't have to do and

[00:23:22] think like just having that added starting to have like more of this in communities but especially

[00:23:28] our communities I think is is a pathway to start to combat some of this it's not the only answer

[00:23:35] like there's going to be more interventions that are needed but I think do-less having access to Medicaid

[00:23:41] making it more accessible to folks at different income levels that starts to help right once that

[00:23:48] is implemented that can start to have a real impact in our community so I think it's some of

[00:23:54] it is about what are the systems what are the systems that are our employees how can we make

[00:24:00] those systems stronger right how can we how can we make those things work for folks in our community right

[00:24:07] and then there is there is just like that whole community thing that Jackie was kind of speaking to

[00:24:12] Jackie and Josh like it's kind of like that each one teach one right which is why we're starting

[00:24:16] to have these conversations where I started to have these conversations in community so folks can

[00:24:20] start to open up about their experiences and start to create kind of like that ecosystem

[00:24:26] that allows us to really lift up these issues in a in a different way and a more holistic way

[00:24:31] right so I think there's multiple approaches to kind of thinking through the strategy those are

[00:24:37] some of the ways that we can start to address those disparities is really by having more resources

[00:24:42] that come into our communities right more resources that are going into these programs that are

[00:24:49] you know some of them are already in existence but then there's some other stuff that we need right

[00:24:53] and us starting to bring storm on like what that is right and that's how the surveys can help

[00:24:59] to address some of that right what are some of the gaps that we're missing what are some

[00:25:03] of the places that where you know there's some stuff that's already there but we're obviously

[00:25:08] we're not catching everything so yeah I think those are some of the ways that we can start to

[00:25:13] think about what the quality care for black women. Personally I mean having used the dula my wife and

[00:25:34] I during our pregnancies yeah it's it's invaluable it was not covered you know it wasn't even

[00:25:39] that dula weren't acknowledged by the insurance at all and they also felt like the hospital system

[00:25:44] didn't understand how useful the dula could be not just for us but also for then because to your point

[00:25:49] you know Jackie they don't have a lot of time to answer all our questions or even want to take

[00:25:53] the time to answer those questions but then they don't really want somebody else with you who can't

[00:25:58] answer those questions like this is helpful for you like it makes it make it a job easier if the

[00:26:04] patient has somebody who can help them feel more comfortable. I for a long time I wanted to see

[00:26:09] that that policy shift happen so that more families can have access to that and I know that we're

[00:26:14] recording this episode prior to the press conference at the statehouse where y'all will be unveiling

[00:26:20] the survey results but this episode will be released after the fact and so I was wondering if you

[00:26:24] could you could share a little bit your tamiari shared a little bit about what kind of policy changes

[00:26:28] you hope the policy makers will be hearing who you'll be sharing these results with. What do

[00:26:34] you hope policy makers and help care providers learn from the results and what changes should

[00:26:39] be making? I think for one it has to start with not being a money maker issue and about folks

[00:26:49] health we got never response in the world but we don't have enough folks that's taking care of mom

[00:26:55] and dad like I said those I know people myself who have had dolas and love them I figured I got

[00:27:00] girlfriend just had a baby twigs of them and she talked just braved about her dola and why isn't

[00:27:06] it I thought it was already passed and now they put these more stipulations on and they got to go

[00:27:10] through classes and stuff this is one thing after another because it's about making money so

[00:27:14] I'm praying that these health care providers I even had a conversation with the lady who

[00:27:20] works at well the team who works at catering hospital and they act like they didn't know

[00:27:25] that black women go through this issue I'm like you know he's making up stuff as you go

[00:27:28] you know you work in the system so you know I just hope they realized that we're human my skin

[00:27:33] been black for 63 years things have not changed hardly they're getting worse so I pray that my

[00:27:40] grandkids my kids after them they'll have a life worth living you know the way it is now

[00:27:45] I don't see if things don't change we're all gonna be dead I don't want to see another baby die

[00:27:51] I don't want to see another mother die trying to give birth and then even after you give birth

[00:27:56] you know she doesn't have the care that she needs so I pray that all these things can change

[00:28:01] I know not going to change overnight I know that but I pray that they can see if they need to

[00:28:06] put some money into helping us mentally as well and let like folks know that it's okay to go to

[00:28:12] go to start I got my little speed down but we've been through them told for so long that if we go

[00:28:18] real weak and I realized that I was weak by not going trying to carry all this stuff on

[00:28:24] myself and then the weak end up getting sick I had to have a stroke about seven years ago to

[00:28:29] realize that I can't I'm not super warmth I can't do it all it goes hand in hand so hopefully

[00:28:35] the I know everybody's if there are things about making money I know that's hard it's going to be hard

[00:28:40] to get them to change but they can make some changes even just change the fact that do

[00:28:44] us can get start practicing and get paid for what they do to start little bit of things and

[00:28:50] make better care of better so a full pin can go to the doctor and they can get what they need

[00:28:55] without having this huge my girlfriend went to hospital and she ended up in a coma for almost eight

[00:29:02] months when she got out of the hospital she had a bill for $1.6 million. Look at pay that

[00:29:08] Medicare says she had overstended her meal about six months into her and she's still in the

[00:29:12] home so all that time she's still paying so that's changed that because the doctor's they don't

[00:29:18] need to get any more money they make him $5,000 an hour just take care of the people and actually

[00:29:25] make it just like we have teachers that they care you have doctors that care good you know something

[00:29:30] happened when I think about the policies I think there's so many different ways that the policy

[00:29:36] could go I would say first whatever we could do to support implementation to do a bill we want to

[00:29:42] continue to do by lifting up the stories of those folks that have been directly impacted but I think

[00:29:49] even within thinking about health we know a lot of healthy practices start early so like what

[00:29:55] are we doing to expand Medicaid so that children have access to Medicaid benefits a lot of the

[00:30:00] things that develop they're preventable right if we're investing in it early I think there's

[00:30:05] so many different ways that the policies can go but I think at the core of it is us thinking

[00:30:11] about what's the conversation that folks that are directly impacted like one of the things

[00:30:15] that are going to make a huge impact to their life and I think the two top things that come

[00:30:20] up when you think about that is access and affordability. Access and affordability

[00:30:25] what are the things that are going to make it impact in their life right so I definitely think like

[00:30:30] expanding Medicaid right making sure it's more accessible to the folks that actually need it I

[00:30:35] hope that that's something that comes out of this I think also there's probably some other policy

[00:30:41] things that could come out of it right and I'm not thinking about like some some of the things

[00:30:46] that we hear are not necessarily like systems changes but they're more like administrative things

[00:30:52] that could be handled in that way and this and that could just be how to insurance like it's

[00:30:58] interpretive or house utilize those are the things that prevent people from like actually utilizing

[00:31:02] their insurance I'll give like a quick example and then I'll wrap up and then you know we

[00:31:07] other folks can weigh in but I personally had a medical situation and once an emergency room they

[00:31:14] could have because I was going to an emergency room they could have allowed for me to have the testing

[00:31:19] that I needed at that time but because they didn't do it in emergency I actually had to delay that

[00:31:26] but eight weeks so actually delayed me from getting the care that I needed for eight weeks so

[00:31:31] imagine if it was something like to me it was something serious because I was in a lot of pain right

[00:31:36] but imagine if it was something that would have threatened my life in that moment

[00:31:41] I would have been denied that care for eight weeks and so I think some of it is about how the

[00:31:47] benefits are just like administered right and some of that like I said could be administrative changes

[00:31:52] I hope that once we see what it would actually came out in the survey that there's some things

[00:31:57] like that in there that I hope save people right not just help save people's lives but actually you

[00:32:03] know a lot of people to utilize their insurance and not creating more barriers to people utilizing

[00:32:09] their insurance I think like that stops a lot of people from using it just frankly because most

[00:32:16] people don't have the time to take off the work to keep going to the doctor these are real things

[00:32:21] that people are dealing with every time you have to leave early for doctors appointment I

[00:32:26] believe early for a child doctor's appointment right impact your employment right so why are we doing

[00:32:33] more to make sure that people can utilize their benefits you know in the time that they have right

[00:32:39] while we're being thinking about this from a more efficient perspective some of the

[00:32:43] ones when this Jackie said right we can we just gotta make it work for people and it currently does

[00:32:48] not work but that is by design which is why we want to start to lift up some of the inequities

[00:32:54] that black women are naming across the state wonderful thank you so much so I guess we can get

[00:33:02] towards wrapping this up unless you guys have any do you first of all have any like specific

[00:33:06] other things that you wanted to share on the survey or anything like that I'm not sure if

[00:33:13] they were mentioned about having like the different mobile units because that was one of

[00:33:18] that if the parent can't get to the doctors they can think it was cat or somebody it was

[00:33:25] having mobile units come to different schools to administer certain I know some of it some

[00:33:30] things you can't do but some some things you can but some of them I know they do

[00:33:34] eyeglasses and hearing tests you can have them do vaccinations or whatever the child can't

[00:33:40] come to school without being vaccinated right I have things changed it's been a long time

[00:33:45] because I have to get but yeah just having that available and not charging that was you know it

[00:33:51] was free so and if it's free we folks may show up I totally you know agree with that yes the

[00:33:57] Medicaid expansion even Medicaid in the schools right actually starting health clinics in the school

[00:34:03] I think those are the kind of things that folks in our communities absolutely need these are all

[00:34:09] like great policy things that we hope come up from it you know that we hope our recommendations

[00:34:14] and even if they aren't recommendations these are things that we're going to continue to

[00:34:18] lift up if fight for because we know that people in our community need it

[00:34:23] Well the last question what gives you hope in this work are there like any specific examples

[00:34:29] you can point to us progress or changes I know Miss Jackie you had said that a lot hasn't changed

[00:34:35] but is there anything on the horizon or in recent years that has given you some hope?

[00:34:42] We didn't have a little question the only hope that I have I'm some serious is not in man

[00:34:47] and that's only in my father that things will change I mean upgrade that folk are getting more

[00:34:53] information which that's happening we're leading with folk that probably you know we're going to

[00:35:01] have different social settings going to senior citizens talking to them and they were 60% of the

[00:35:09] people who put up the survey were seniors and dating and they just are happy that somebody cared about

[00:35:15] them enough to even ask the question I do pray I have hope with things going right now

[00:35:23] a lot of things going to have to change and it all depends on really who gets in office

[00:35:28] but yeah I have hope that things will change I hope that but I did talk to a young black doctor

[00:35:35] who basically said she didn't want to do what she didn't want any patients that was on care source

[00:35:40] and I like girl what is wrong with you but it's all about making money

[00:35:45] she wants to be rich quick and like everybody wasn't born with the service pony about you had

[00:35:50] a mother and father who bulk were doctors what about the folk that took care of your mother and

[00:35:55] their mother and their father who were poor people so you said you don't want them you wouldn't

[00:36:00] take care of your own grandparents so I just think the mindset needs to change and we're trying to do

[00:36:05] that daily I hope the policy makes a difference about that probably makes a difference and then

[00:36:10] we can get some of that money yeah that's the hope I have if they're going to up that money

[00:36:15] in February or June whatever it is and make some changes I would say this name it's also my hope

[00:36:22] that these results are taken serious it's my hope that change can be made even if it's small

[00:36:30] and we can take a win I win as a win so my hope is that my hope is that there is

[00:36:37] there's some type of change in that they see how serious it was encouraging to see these one

[00:36:41] and be vulnerable and share their experiences with doctors so hopefully I'm hoping that the

[00:36:48] vulnerability through the results will bring about some type of change and that the stories are touching

[00:36:54] enough for us to see see something changed within this industry concerning black women.

[00:37:01] I think for me so I think it was in 2021 you know when we were working on a budget in 2021

[00:37:08] one of the big wins that came out of that budget cycle was women who were given birth they were able

[00:37:16] to have like Medicaid access for two years mental health services that was really hopeful for me

[00:37:24] I'm just knowing all of the different things that women have to carry it's not just being a parent

[00:37:31] or being a mom there's obviously like a science that's happening there's something scientific that's

[00:37:37] happening in your body and getting your brain during that time but you know people haven't

[00:37:41] navigated all of these other systems that are at play and so I think some of the wins of the past

[00:37:49] make me hopeful and I know like that was a different time with some strange times now but I think

[00:37:57] one of the things that's really making me hopeful when I think about black women's health they want

[00:38:02] to think about what's possible is that there's so much further that we can go and there's such

[00:38:09] huge impact that could be had to the lives and then also the systems that seek to regulate the lives of

[00:38:18] women and so like that is what I'm hopeful for is that no matter what comes out of the survey

[00:38:23] whether we win or we don't we start to chip away at the ideology right that keeps us in this place

[00:38:30] and I think like that is where I'm hopeful is that we start to chip away at these systems that

[00:38:37] do not want to see folks in our community starve that's what makes me the most hopeful is that we

[00:38:43] start to chip away at it if we win if we win on top of it that would you know whatever we win will be joyful

[00:38:51] and I'm happy to celebrate that too but I think the hope is that we we get to make sure that

[00:38:59] women are saying what they need this is what we need this is what we need for our lives this is what

[00:39:05] we need for policy and I think like that is the place that I'm drawn my hope from is that more women

[00:39:11] start to get free as a result you know as you were talking to me I started thinking about

[00:39:17] the base that I've been able to accomplish just by you know with black women's health and

[00:39:23] I see 15 women who have grown so tremendously together their advocates in their church

[00:39:34] they're stepping up they're talking to folk about it I see it together and is that we didn't have

[00:39:39] so and we meet every week now because we got we got some things coming up but even the once a month

[00:39:44] thing that we have it's not like I said it's a movement it's it's not it's not a campaign even if

[00:39:50] the campaign is over I do believe that we would still continue to meet to talk about it and we're

[00:39:56] doing things like making sure we keep in each other accountable we have one young that young lady

[00:40:01] is having problems with their health blood pressure so we're making her check her blood pressure every

[00:40:05] day it's in the juice becoming a family that some of us didn't have I don't have any family

[00:40:11] members here other than my husband you know this family so it's bringing us closer together even

[00:40:15] though we have a lot of the big things ahead of us we know we got a lot of a huge fight but

[00:40:20] this could be this could happen I'm my prayer is that there's a black women's health initiative

[00:40:25] in every church that we are all doing this work we're all coming together and seeing learn how to

[00:40:31] eat better you know taking because we take care of our own blood pressure a lot of those are

[00:40:36] diabetic because we don't eat right you know and we've seen changes made you know that so it's not

[00:40:41] all on the doctor some things are somethings are on our self as well and we've been you know

[00:40:45] we've been doing that we've been walking together some of the some people have walked in years

[00:40:50] you know so just getting together and coming walking together once a week has been

[00:40:54] tremendous I wish it was once a day but we won't have time for all that but just a little bit

[00:40:59] of stress like that you know and then having a walk club that's huge that's something that's

[00:41:06] that's developed because Tammy decided to do a black women's health initiative so we

[00:41:10] have you to thank for that that's amazing that's beautiful yeah well this one of the

[00:41:16] thank y'all for joining us this conversation has been great and it's really touches me I

[00:41:20] lost my mom and she was 49 and after a battle with cancer and she was sick much of my life you know

[00:41:26] and I was too young to hurt to share all of her struggles navigating the health system but I

[00:41:30] know she went through a lot and super intelligent woman but they treat you how they treat you

[00:41:36] you know and the last thing you want to deal with when you're sick and trying to heal is

[00:41:40] other people's ignorance and and racism right it's so tiring and so yeah it's touching all of our

[00:41:48] communities I was really appreciate the work you're doing for all of us and I was

[00:41:53] wondering courage because I've seen the the care economy language being used more and more

[00:41:58] even vice-person Harris is using that language to describe her economic policies and it wouldn't

[00:42:04] shock me if the democrats just that co-opt the language entirely and don't do anything meaningful

[00:42:08] but it's of the y'all are having some impact this work that's been going on for some time now

[00:42:13] that's building up all over the country and shaping how we think about our economy and how it relates

[00:42:18] to our health how we really get to the root issues inequality and all these systems and how they

[00:42:24] manifest and show up in our bodies so it's really appreciate the work you're all been doing and

[00:42:28] when I make sure y'all know that it is having a huge impact even though I know every day

[00:42:32] there's people who are dying and are struggling and it doesn't always feel like things are going to

[00:42:35] get better thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you appreciate show any closing thoughts

[00:42:42] I want to share with listeners before we sign off nothing major but I do just want to lift up for

[00:42:48] folks I know that this just to remember that there's so much power in our community cares on the

[00:42:54] ballot whether you see it in a policy or not just kind of keep that with you over the next couple

[00:43:00] of months whether you see it direct policy around and people are policies let's just make sure

[00:43:06] that we're always thinking about the things that we actually need healthcare is one of the top issues

[00:43:13] it actually is the type of issues for a lot of folks that feel disenfranchised and it's

[00:43:19] probably because you know there's people in their family that need access to healthcare and need

[00:43:23] access to some type of some type of service that they can't receive right or they haven't received

[00:43:28] so let's think about ourselves and think about our communities over the course of the next couple

[00:43:34] months yeah the cares on the ballot as always because it what's go to higher dot com for

[00:43:46] show notes and links and subscribe to what's go to higher wherever you get your podcasts we'll

[00:43:51] see you next time to keep talking about what's good here in Ohio